Casey is a business growth strategist and marketing mentor for intuitive, conscious, impact-driven women. As a seasoned entrepreneur who has scaled multi six figure companies over the last 10 years, Casey knows first hand what it takes to create sustainable yet exponential success. After making the hard decision to close her first business, she went on to build her second in a way that feels abundant, aligned and authentic and is now dedicated to helping women embody their quiet power and scale their businesses, 100% on their terms.
💝 Key Takeaways
- How Casey leveraged her introverted, sensitive superpowers and stepped into her quiet power.
- The 3 Ds that contribute to your exponential growth.
- How Casey uses a goal box, also known as a treasure chest, to eradicate things like imposter syndrome and develop more self-confidence.
- Casey shares the 3 questions she asks herself every day in her business that helps guide her decisions and daily actions.
- Tips around how Casey has grown her Facebook community to over 5.7k.
📚 Resources Mentioned
The Introvert’s Guide to Marketing
🔗 Where You Can Find Casey
Facebook Profile: https://www.facebook.com/casey.lightbody/
Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/thequietcollective
Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/introvertwomeninbusiness
🌹 Rose’s Resources
[FREE] UpLevel Your Business Mindset Hypnosis
[FREE] Facebook Community for HSP Entrepreneurs
📖 (Imperfect) Transcript
We use Descript to provide this transcript which isn’t always perfect but wonderful all the same. (affiliate link 😃)
Rose: Hey, it’s Rose and welcome to another episode of the Sensitive CEO Show. And in today’s episode, it’s my pleasure to introduce you to Casey Lightbody. Casey is a business growth strategist and marketing mentor for Intuitive conscious impact-driven women. Welcome, Casey. Wonderful to talk to you again today,
Casey: Rose.Thank you so much for having me. I’m so excited to be here. Thank you.
Rose: Thank you, and I would love, I, know that was a concise intro that I did, but I would love for you to share with the audience a bit more about your background, who it is that you work with, what you do, and everything.
Casey: Absolutely, Rose. So I call myself, a seasoned entrepreneur. I’ve been around the block for a long time. So my background is in marketing and relationship management, so I followed the status quo. I fell into corporate purely by accident. That’s what you did. Right. And that was back in the UK. We lived in the UK then, and I told my husband it was now or never when we immigrated to Australia.
I want to leap into starting my own business. It had been a dream of mine since I was a little girl. And he says, “ Okay, the time’s right; we’ll start your business. And so, I started a business, and I started my business, which was a marketing consulting business for professional service-based businesses because that had been my background.
I’d been in finance and engineering, mainly professionals and accountants, primarily professional services. I thought, well, I’ll just start the business. It’s what I know. And that business grew pretty quickly. We hit six figures in about 18 months, and the consultancy turned into an agency, and suddenly I, before I knew it, I had a team and multiple clients.
I juggled everything around running an agency and doing all the digital marketing strategy and implementation for professional service-based businesses. And one day, I was sitting at this desk Roses, and I looked at myself and was like, what have I created here? I thought that I was living the dream, and in fact, it was a nightmare because I was working crazy, crazy hours, not doing anything I loved.
I was burning the candle at both ends. And here I thought I’d wanted to stop my business for the freedom, flexibility and fun of being a mom for my kids to create my financial autonomy or all those kind of things that you do to start a business. And it was only then, Rose, that I realised, hold on a second.
I’ve created a business that needs to be more aligned. To who I was and my personality. And it was only then that I realised, number one, how introverted I was. Number two, how susceptible I was. Three, how empathic I was. I was like, holy moly, no wonder what I’ve created isn’t in alignment with me because it’s not who I am.
And so I made a massive decision back then to burn that business to the ground. And hindsight, of course, it was sellable. I, I, I didn’t even think about that. I just want to be done with this, right? And so I closed the doors on that business and kept one of my consulting clients, my favourite one, and I went back to the drawing board and said, hold on a second.
If I want to truly make an impact in the world, if I want to create my own business, I want to do it on my terms, and I want to consider all of who I am. So that I could make a business that I love, which was the start of the Quiet Collective. And so we started the company, four or five years ago, I don’t know exactly, around four or five years ago.
And now we help, highly sensitive and introverted women, but those who are deeply connected to themselves, Rose. Those conscious, impact-driven women who want to build a business on their terms. They’re not interested in the cookie cutter formulas or following the status quo, but it’s all about coming back into their own quiet, which is why the name The Quiet Collective.
It’s about coming into their quiet, trusting themselves, and creating successful, sustainable businesses. So we are all about exponential growth. But at the same time, it’s got to be sustainable because if we are not prioritising our energy management and putting it front and centre as susceptible introverted women, we’re setting ourselves up for failure.
So that’s the work I get to do now, supporting women like me to scale and grow their businesses.
Rose: I love that story, and I love that you, well, not burnt the business down, but that you were brave enough to make that decision to let go of a successful business. Good on you.
Casey: Yeah, it was a huge decision, one of the most significant decisions I’ve had to make, Rose. But you know, in hindsight, what a blessing it’s been. Right? And so sometimes we do have to let things go, and I think that’s one of the biggest lessons I’ve learned in business is having the courage to let go of things without having to cling so tightly to things, forcing them to happen.
You know, hoping that there’s going to get a result, but being okay to let go of things and trust in your gut that it will be okay to let things go as well.
Rose: Right. I don’t know why I’m thinking of this quote I love. Well, it’s not a quote; it’s a saying that nature abhors a vacuum. And it’s like when you let go, good things come in.
But if you hold onto things, there’s no space for the good things to come.
Casey: Absolutely. Absolutely. And that has been one of my biggest lessons in the last five years, is this piece around, you know, really being able to surrender because it’s in that place of the unknown that creation happens, right?
And so often we are led to believe that we’ve got to be focused and we’ve got to be, you know, strategic and we’ve got to be doing all the time, right? And especially as women who are juggling all the things, it’s so hard for us actually to take that time. To proactively slow down and listen, right?
Rose: Yeah, definitely. We’re very good at multitasking.
Casey: Absolutely. a yes. Someone who’s always struggled with that, in my life, it’s been one of my biggest lessons. Stop multitasking, Casey. We can do it all, but it could be better. It’s not for our best, best selves.
Rose: Exactly. Especially when we’re highly sensitive and introverted. Yeah. Absolutely, so your topic today, which I’m going to read out, I know it’s in the show notes and everything, but how I went from 10 K months to my first 100 K months in my business without hustling or hiding behind an extroverted mask.
That is, I mean, I love that, and I don’t know where to start or what to ask you. So I guess my question is, where did you start, how did you get to that stage of a hundred K months?
Casey: Yeah, Roses, I mean, again, this has been massive for me, right? Because I think having a background in marketing and business and am very ambitious, driven, and type A.
I’ve been very in my masculine. So I’m very in my doing, and little did I know that in that doing, I was numbing out a whole lot of emotions. And so one of the things I committed to was as Covid was hitting. So I remember walking, one of my favourite things to do is walking, and we were chatting offline about that, and there was this moment in time, Rose, that I realised, hold on a second here.
And Casey, I’ve created this business. We’ve seen some tremendous success. We’ve run summits with women like Amy Porterfield and Salina Sue on there, and we’ve seen that. And yet I still feel like I’m playing small. And with the impact of the pandemic and the uncertainty that so many faces, I’m equipped to help women create and start.
Build, and grow scale their businesses. Why am I playing so small? And so it was this moment in time, Rose, where I went from logical, logically knowing my expertise. And I don’t know if your listeners will agree with this, but you know, I was playing in that imposter complex all the time, being not good enough, even though I had 20 years of experience, even though had all the accolades and all that kind of stuff. And I had the actual tangible results. But my little voice still said, Casey, you’re not good enough. Right? And so one of the things, and even though I logically knew it, and I have a gold box behind me that is my treasure chest, that reminds me of all the fantastic achievements and successes I’ve had in my life, in my business.
But it was that moment in time Rose where. I’m not just going to know this logically. I’m going to embody it and integrate it. And that was the start of the work I did around combining this piece with confidently owning my superpowers of which introversion and highly sensitivity are part of that, right?
Casey: And that was one of the first steps in this piece around confidence. And as you step up in faith, Rose, I talk about this with my clients; when you are in your power and have this confidence, you immediately become a magnet. For other people, the more you can show up in your part, the more people want to be like you.
You inspire other people. And so that happened. And so part of the results we’ve had in the business is me doing the inner work around this. So the starting point was integrating this piece around—the confidence to own my expertise and my quiet power.
That’s one of the steps. I mean, we can go into so many others, but I’m, you know, happy to be guided by you here.
Rose: I wanted to ask about your goal box. I love that. I’ve got something similar that I share with my clients, which is a client success journal, and I get them to put all of their successes from their clients that people have shared or anything.
They might have had a conversation with their coach and so many things, but I love your idea of a physical goal box. Is that something that you do? Do you pop things in regularly?
Casey: Absolutely, I do. So I started this when my mentor, gosh, it was quite a few years ago, and she said to me, Casey, I want you to write a list of everything you’ve achieved in your life, in your business.
And I thought, okay, I’m going to do that. And so I wrote down this list and went through A4 pages. And you know, sometimes it was challenging. I had to go digging because I was stuck in this loop of not enoughness. And go searching for all these things. And that was the first thing I put in my goal box Rose.
And then, since then, I now put so much stuff in there, right? So I put in, and I’ll go through it. I’ll print off testimonials. I’ll print off emails, any handwritten cards that I get, and any photos that I want to remind myself of me speaking on stage. So I’ll print it off and pop it into that goal box so that it reminds me, in those moments that you’re not feeling enough, I can pull that out and say, oh, hold on a second.
Remember that this happened. Remember that that happened. What I love too, I’m going to add to this piece because this is precisely what I get my clients to do, too; it is a success and celebrations journal, Rose. And I can’t emphasise the importance of that enough because energetically, again, the acknowledgement for yourself of your successes is vibrationally going to raise your energy levels too.
So again, the more that you can practise this, and again, as women who are so programmed in just doing it and then focusing on what’s the next thing and more, more, when we can stop and acknowledge for ourselves. The celebrations, it shifts vibration.
And one of our clients, I mean, it was crazy. She was tied to her desk. Like literally, she felt like she had to be on all the time, and she had the most incredible opportunity. She was travelling around the world. She was, and at this time, she was actually in Costa Rica and said Casey. She’s like, all I want to do is go and swim in the ocean.
My favourite thing is swimming in the ocean. And I said, well, what about you? Give yourself the gift of celebration that you close your laptop down at three o’clock in the afternoon, and you go and celebrate by swimming in the ocean. Not because it’s for fitness or any reason, but purely for the love and enjoyment of it, and that you’re celebrating yourself, that you shut the laptop down.
She messaged me the following day, and said, Casey, you’re not going to believe it. I’ve just had an opportunity to present in workshops to a company with over 80 employees. Now this is someone who’s just starting in business, I was like, this is what happens. Like the magic, and I don’t want to get all woo-woo Rose on this, too, right?
But the thing is, this is what magically happens, too: the more you can space and this energetic vibration, the more you attract it to you. Again, this is a testament to the results we’ve got this year.
Rose: That makes so much sense. It’s stepping away to rejuvenate as well.
But it is, it’s an energetic thing. It’s like with magnetism as well. Being, having that magnet to draw the right people to you and the right opportunities.
Casey: Absolutely. And this, and this is, you know, I’m a business strategist. I’m a marketing coach. I’m all about the systems and the structure, funnels, and all that stuff.
But what I know to be accurate and have seen the exponential results too, Rose, is that strategy will get you so far. And it’s essential to have the foundational pieces that are so missing in the business world that we forget that. We jump to the shiny objects and all the, you know, the latest fad tactic that’s working in marketing, and we forget the foundational pieces.
That’s another whole story. But without the energetics piece, you are capped; you’re going to hit a glass ceiling because it’s the thing that makes you immediately captivated. It makes you magnetic to your audiences, how you show up and be in the world. And that’s, and that’s, and that’s the work that ultimately, at the end of the day, when we are looking for sustainable successes coming back to ourselves over and over and over again.
Radical self-responsibility with self-trust, confidence, and emotional intelligence are all things that allow us to sharpen our personal power.
Rose: Beautiful. And I know many people, well, I’m, I’m presuming many people listening to this podcast. They don’t have much confidence in themselves or their business.
Have you got any tips that you could share with them Casey?
Casey: Yes. Oh my gosh. Because, again, I was sharing with a client this morning. I was on a coaching call, and I said, you won’t believe it. But it wasn’t even that long ago that I hopped onto my first group coaching call and realised it was video.
And you’ve never seen someone. It ended so quickly because I was so shy to be on video. Right? Like, it’s crazy to think Rose. And so I want to say that I completely get it. And wanting to put yourself out there, especially as you’re starting a business, is a big challenge, especially for someone who prefers to be behind the scenes and who’s, you know, wanting to avoid being the spotlight, the show pony, and the centre of attention.
But what I can say in my journey is that I’ve stretched my courage muscle. So I’ve worked that courage muscle, and how I think of it is, it’s not about taking these giant leaps out of your comfort zone; it’s about expanding your capacity zone.
I learned this term from a dear friend, Beth Belo, and she talked about the idea of a capacity zone. And how I like to think about it is the elastic band. Right. Rose. So you want to stretch the elastic band slightly, but not so much that it will snap. And so as you start to think about and think about, okay, well, what is the action that’s so scary and I’m not feeling confident.
Yes. The treasure box will help. And there’s a whole piece around integrating, but it’s also about taking action. And so the piece on taking action is, okay, what’s that scary thing? What is a thing that I can do that’s not so scary but it’s going to give me butterflies? It’s going to make me feel a little bit uncomfortable. But, still, it’s just going to stretch that elastic band a little bit so that it moves my comfort zone to that next ladder up right.
And so that’s what happened to me. But, you know with the video, but let me talk about public speaking because one of the worst fears of my life was public speaking. And even being on a podcast like this would’ve been terrifying. But speaking on stage was one of the things I was terrified of.
And, back in the day, someone I was working with, she said, Casey I would like you to run some workshops on LinkedIn. And I freaked out, like, oh my gosh, talking in front of people, that’s going to be so scary. And so I was like, okay, I’ll do it. So I said yes to the opportunity. And there were three people in the room Rose. I was like, okay, I can do this. And gradually, that three people turned into ten people, turned into 15 people, turned into 20 people. And now I look back, and I was like, well the company flew me to Chile, to Santiago, and I stood in front of, on a stage in front of 300 people, and I spoke. And you know, when I reflect on that journey, it’s about stretching your courage muscle and taking baby steps.
And that’s how I feel like you build your confidence.
Rose: I love that advice. That’s gold. Absolute gold.
Rose: So you talk about leveraging our superpowers as sensitives, introverts, and empaths. What ways could you share with the audience the best way to leverage them?
Casey: Yes. One of the things that we, again, grow up to believe is that these are character flaws.
I don’t know how many of us have told Casey that you’re too sensitive. Stop crying. All the things are right about their character flaws, and this piece is starting to recognise that they are, in fact, superpowers. Rose is, is the work, right? And so, how I like to teach this and, for my clients too, saying, okay, let’s start to see what it is about your superpowers of introversion, sensitivity, empath, being an empath path is going to help you actually to show up better.
For your clients, as they see that, this reinforces their confidence because they start to see what great connectors they are. So again, even though we are introverts, lone wolves, and prefer our own company, we make great relationship builders. And the reason for that is that we have such excellent active listening skills.
We are deeply introspective of everything that goes into creating, making us who we are. And that’s the piece that is so important to integrate into yourself, is to start to say, okay. So, as an introvert, what are my superpowers, and how are they allowing me to show up more effectively than others?
And starting to recognise those little nuggets for yourself is the pathway for me.
Rose: Brilliant. Thank you for sharing that. So. I have a question about your business. You said that you had $100K months, and I hope you don’t mind me asking this, and you don’t have to answer, but what would be the profit percentage? Like if you have a big team behind you, or did you have many expenses and overheads?
Casey: Yeah, so I won’t share the profit margins with you Rose. Running an online business is highly profitable, so I run it lean. And so we have a team, it’s a team of three of us, so we only have three full-time employees, and that’s, we are growing, we are going to expand next year definitely.
And so there’s been some growing pains with that level as well. Right? But running an online business, again, I have not ever run a brick-and-mortar business, so I can’t compare it. All my companies have been online, right? But again, this is the model that I’ve created.
Not only is it sustainable for me and my energy management, but I’ve looked at it by saying, okay, how can it create the most effective? How can it be the most effective, profitable business at the end of the day? So really looking at what you are offering, what your business model looks like, how, like being really, mindful of your expenses and your bottom line and saying, do I actually, and this is part of the, I think the work that we do is the decisions that we make in our business, and are they reliant to our long-term strategy, our vision, and what we want to create.
Because ultimately, at the end of the day, Rose, we talk about those numbers, and the numbers are fantastic, and of course, we’re all in business to make a profit, but I am all about the impact. And so the more I can create an impact in the world, that is the most fulfilling thing for me.
And so, if I can effectively run a well-oiled machine in terms of my business, that will ultimately allow me to create a more significant impact, which is the thing that matters most to me.
Rose: Brilliant. Great answer. Thank you, Casey. And, the other thing I’d add to that is, which you already alluded to, is the energy.
That you have the time, energy, and everything is in alignment, which I know is with you.
Casey: It’s massive. Right. Rose, again, I’m not afraid to say that I’ve done alot of stuff, right, for trial and error. Like lots of trial and error. Like I’ve been an Amazon bestseller, I’ve sold products online.
I’ve done memberships; I’ve done courses, I’ve done one-to-one. I’ve done group coaching, and all of it is I’ve, okay, let me put this hat on. Let me try it on for size. Let me see if it fits. How does it feel? Is it cosy? Is it comfortable? Is it something that actually makes me happy, makes my heart happy.
And so these are all pieces I’ve trialled, and I don’t; the more you get to know yourself, the more you can decide how you want to create your business. And that’s a core piece of actually creating sustainable success too, because, you know, it’s so easy to fall into, oh, jump into memberships, pathway to recurring revenue or passive income streams, create courses, and they’ll pay you in your sleep and all that stuff.
It’s easy to fall into that, but is it fulfilling for you at the end of the day? Because at the end of the day, all I want is peace, happiness, contentment, joy, and we are going to be, we are going to be in the business for the long term.
Right. And so, every decision I make is through that lens. It doesn’t make my heart happy.
Rose: So Casey, you shared with me earlier about the three Ds that contributed to your exponential growth. Can you dive into that with the rest of the audience, please?
Casey: Yes absolutely. So I alluded to the first D, which is decisions. Right. Rose, again, it’s essential to make a decision.
So be in the quiet, listen to that inner voice, trust your intuition, and then make a decision, right? So again, that decision that I made back pre covid was that I would stand in my power and embody and integrate my power right? So that’s the first D.
The second D is then the discipline. So being disciplined with that decision. I love doing this with my clients, like, are you or not committed? Because you can’t be half committed, right? So there’s gotta be a level of discipline here. And we talked about this with you, with your walking, you know, it’s that level of discipline that you show up.
You’ve decided, you’ve made a decision. And then it’s the discipline. The discipline. And then, from there, it’s the daily devotion. So, Rose, it’s the daily devotion to the actions that will fulfil that decision for you. And so that’s been like, again, I have three questions I ask myself daily in my business.
Number one, how am I generating a sales conversation with two today? Number two. How am I filling my pipeline with leads? And number three, how am I delivering exceptional customer service today? If I tick those three things off every day, I know I’m heading towards the decision I’ve made. And that can apply to any goal or anything.
I lost 20 kilos this year, and I applied the same thing, right? It was like, I made a decision. I’m making this decision to lose this weight. I had some health challenges. I decided to lose weight. Discipline, healthy eating, exercise commitment, and then that daily devotion to Rose.
And I think that’s key is to be decisive and then take the daily actions, at the same time giving yourself grace and compassion as well. Right?
Rose: Yeah and I love how these filter into the rest of your life as well. It’s not just about business. It’s about your health and your wellness and everything.
Casey: Absolutely. Absolutely.
Rose: This is a curly question, and again, you don’t have to answer this, but I’m inquisitive. You’ve got the most beautiful Facebook community; I think, last time I looked, it was about 5,700. I would love to know how you built such an amazing Facebook group.
Casey: Yeah, great question and more than happy to answer this again, Rose. I love that. I love this question because it’s been such a journey of trial and error, right? When I started my first Facebook group, I started it because I hosted my very first summit, and you being a summit owner two, you’ll understand.
I started the Facebook group, and I brought everyone in, and I wasn’t really; we had 4,000 women through that first summit. It was amazing. But I didn’t know; I didn’t have an intention for the group. And it was just, you know, that scratchy feeling that you get when there’s like, there’s something off.
Like you couldn’t, you can’t figure out, you can’t put your finger on what is it that’s just off. But there was just a feeling I had around this group because I, maybe it was, was hazy because I didn’t have an intention and all this stuff. Anyway, so again. I’m not; I’m not afraid to burn things down.
So I decided to close that business down. Even though I had, you know, I don’t know how many people in that Facebook group, I was like, no, it’s not feeling right. The energy, energy for me, is everything. Energetically it’s not feeling right. And so it took me a couple of years to sit with it and sit with, Do I want a Facebook group?
How is this going to, like, what, how do I want to show up in the Facebook group? What’s the intention of the Facebook group? How is it strategically going to fit into my, into my business? So I started to ask myself those questions, and I was like, okay, No, this is right. I want to start the business; sorry, I want to start the Facebook group.
And so, I started it with a very different energy. So that’s been one of the biggest reasons. Or I’ve been able to build this business to build the Facebook group to that size because I was clear on its intention, the energy behind it, and why I wanted it.
And I wanted it, Rose because I wanted that more profound connection with my community as much as I love having an email. You know, the people on my email list are excellent. But I wanted that interaction. I crave for myself; one of my most significant values is connection. And so I wanted to feel that connection and feel that connection in real-time.
And so, as I built that, people felt the connection there. I’ve got so much feedback that this is like, it feels like such a cosy group. Even though it’s the size it is, it still feels connected. And it’s because back when I first started it, it was this energy of really showing up and feeling connected.
And then, of course, there are strategies to build. The Facebook group, so where the, you know, the Facebook group sits now, in my funnel, and we, it’s an opportunity for me to nurture my community. Still, I go out, and I leverage other people’s audiences now to build that Facebook group, and that’s strategically how we are doing it.
Rose: Brilliant. I love that. Thank you so much for answering that.
Casey: No worries. Happy to answer.
Rose: I have one more question before we wrap up. Honestly, I could talk to you forever, but as you know, we keep these episodes to 30 minutes. So my final question, which I ask all of my podcast guests, is, what do you do when you feel overwhelmed or unfocused?
Casey: Yes, I love this question because I was already sitting with it and thinking, okay, how do I do this? Rose, because again, as chronic overdoers, we tend to get, try and fill our plates with so much to do, right? And so I know I have a tendency towards overwhelm, which led me to burn down with the first business.
So I’m mindful now, and what I will do is I will start to feel it. One of the biggest things I’ve learned is working on my emotional intelligence. So this piece where I felt like often, like honestly, I felt like I was cut off from the neck down. So I was literally all in my head and wasn’t feeling my body.
Now I practise this, and I was like, I can, I can start. The overwhelm is coming up right in my body. I feel it in my solar plexus. I’ll feel it in my jaw. I’ll start actually to feel it in my body, and those, that’s a sign for me actually to stop and breathe, and I will stop, and I’ll take some deep breaths, and often that will be enough for me to carry on if I haven’t got if I haven’t brought myself too far over the edge.
If it’s not I, I will then ask myself, what do I need in those moments of quiet? What do I need at that moment to move these emotions through my body? And so, that depends. Rose. One of the things that I love to do is walk.
So I might hop in my car and plug in my earphones. Go into a walking meditation along the beach. It might be Casey, take some time out and go and watch some daytime TV and just chill out. It might be to sleep like I sleep a lot. And oh, I love my sleep. I love my sleep. But yeah, I’ll sleep.
So it depends on the moment and what I’m feeling, my body and what I need. So that should get back on track. And then I come back to the focus, what am I? What’s my intention for the week? What am I trying to achieve? What are my three questions? What daily actions, discipline, and devotion do I need to do?
And so I’ll get back and focus that way. So hopefully that answers your questions.
Rose: Oh, absolutely. I love how much you honour yourself and your body, and yeah, that’s just wonderful.
Casey: It’s been, it’s been a game changer for me, Rose. Honestly, I can’t tell you what a game-changer it’s been.
Rose: Amazing. Well, thank you so, so much, Casey. It’s beautiful to talk with you today, I know you’ve got a lovely lead magnet, and I’m going to pop that into the show notes along with all of the other links where people can find you, including your awesome Facebook group. So I recommend everyone to pop in there.
And thank you again, Casey.
Casey: It’s my pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. It was an enjoyable conversation, Rose. Thank you.